25 March 2014
Shailesh Vara responds to a back bench MPs’ debate on the future of Bedford Magistrates Court.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Shailesh Vara): I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) for securing this debate and my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for so ably supporting him.
One thing is abundantly clear: both of my hon. Friends feel passionately about this issue. There is no doubt that they represent their constituents to the best of their abilities and they have done so admirably today. Their main concern is that there may be a closure of Bedford magistrates court. Let me address that up front: there are currently no plans to close the magistrates court in Bedford. The proposal is about listing arrangements —that is, the allocation of work between the various locations in Bedfordshire. There has been a consultation and were there to be any plans for a closure, it would have said so. The consultation that has taken place is for a different purpose.
Secondly,
“the maintenance of appropriate arrangements for the deployment of the judiciary of England and Wales and the allocation of work within courts”
is the statutory responsibility of the Lord Chief Justice, not the Lord Chancellor. I think that is recognised, but there still seems to be some anger coming in the direction of the Ministry of Justice. Listing is a judicial function and not one over which the Government have control.
Together with and supported by their justices’ clerk, local magistrates ensure that there is sufficient court time available to meet demand and that the right facilities are provided for the particular types of cases that come before them. That includes reviewing the sitting programmes of magistrates courts within their area. The decision may take into account the best use of resources, but it is not one that is based on saving money. The interests of justice are the overriding factor.
Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service is committed to supporting local magistrates in doing that in order to provide an effective and efficient service to court and tribunal users and to focus resources on front-line services and provide access to justice.
In line with other areas, Bedfordshire magistrates regularly review the sitting programme for the courts in the area, to ensure it is properly aligned with the work load. The proposals for Bedfordshire will mean that criminal cases will be concentrated at Luton magistrates courts and that more family work will be heard at Bedford magistrates court. All family work will be retained and there will be increased capacity for it. I take note of the figures mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford, but as far as I can see they refer to criminal work only.
More family work will be heard at Bedford magistrates court because the facilities at Luton are better equipped for criminal cases and Bedfordshire has the capacity to accommodate all tiers of the single family court. It is the view of the magistrates in Bedfordshire that the proposals will make more efficient use of the courtrooms and thereby reduce waiting times for victims, witnesses and other court users.
The proposals have been subject to wide consultation, including with solicitors, the Crown Prosecution Service and other court users. The local magistrates have carefully considered all the responses. The consultation took into account how justice could best be delivered in a suitable environment, while maximising the effectiveness and timeliness of hearings. In addition, the Bedfordshire bench chairman and senior officials met my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire and other local people, some of whom I believe were solicitors, to discuss the matter in more detail before a final decision was made.
Bedford magistrates court is a listed building with limited facilities. It has five courtrooms. It is not readily accessible for either court users or magistrates with limited mobility, other than one courtroom, which is used primarily for family work. Audibility is a problem and the fixed layout of the courtrooms does not lend itself to the use of modern technology. Two courtrooms have video link facilities, including the family courtroom. There is an upstairs secure witness suite that is accessed through the public entrance. There is cell provision, with limited access for custody vans. There is no court administration on site.
To provide the best service to victims and witnesses in Bedfordshire, it is intended that the current witness facilities at Bedford magistrates court will remain and be upgraded to provide a secure video link for vulnerable witnesses who give evidence in criminal cases at Luton or elsewhere.
Luton magistrates court, on the other hand, is a more modern courthouse with six courtrooms. It is accessible for those with limited mobility, both magistrates and court users. The courtrooms are well provided with hearing loops and there is video link capacity in place. It is proposed that that will be extended to provide the capacity in a courtroom with a secure dock. There are ample waiting and interview facilities. There is a secure witness suite with video link facilities. There is ample cell provision. There is also full court administration on site.
The facilities at Luton magistrates court clearly identify it as better suited to criminal work. It will improve the ability of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service and other agencies to meet commitments under the code of practice for victims of crime.
Alistair Burt: I am listening carefully to the argument that is being put forward by my hon. Friend, but I would raise two issues. First, if the courts in Bedford are so manifestly inadequate, why did that not come out in the consultation process in 2010, when the courts were not considered for closure and these issues were not mentioned? Secondly, he referred to magistrates supporting the proposals. Of course, as I indicated, a substantial number of Bedford magistrates did not support them. Does that not weigh on the Minister’s mind? Will he take that further into account and ask those who are responsible for the decisions to do so as well?
Mr Vara: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising those two issues. First, he speaks of inadequate facilities, which implies that there is an underlying question of closure. There has been no reference to inadequate facilities because, as I speak, there are no plans for closure. I was not the Minister in 2010, but I presume that the closure of Bedford magistrates court was not considered at that time, when a large number of closures were considered.
Secondly, my right hon. Friend speaks of a difference of view about what has been said by the magistrates. There is one version and there is his version. I am happy to visit the magistrates court to meet him and my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford. They can bring the people whom they wish to invite and I will bring my officials. I will ensure that there is a proper dialogue, so that if there have been any miscommunications along the line, we can ensure that they are put right. I will facilitate that meeting, and what is more, I will be at it and will visit the court.
I described the facilities at Luton magistrates court, and there will be greater certainty for witnesses about where trials will be heard. As for family work, which will be heard at Bedford magistrates court, it is equally important for that work to be undertaken in suitable court accommodation, separate from criminal work, with co-location of all tiers of the family court judiciary. On the whole, the centralisation of criminal and family work will enable greater capacity to distribute the workload more effectively and ease waiting times in hearing and completing cases. It will provide greater resilience to cope with unexpected changes to workload, or to judicial or agency resources.
I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford and my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire that the decision to change the listing pattern at Bedford magistrates court was not taken in isolation. There were many other considerations, such as the local reduction in workload, particularly for trials, the need for improved performance and better utilisation of criminal justice system agency resources, and the commitment to maximise the use of digital technology.
As a result of the change in the listing pattern in the Bedfordshire area, some magistrates may incur additional travelling costs. However, they should not be financially disadvantaged, as justices’ allowances allow for the reimbursement of travelling costs incurred in the performance of a justice’s duties.
Richard Fuller: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr Vara: I am happy to give way, but my hon. Friend will be mindful of the fact that I have to wind up within the next three and a half minutes.
Richard Fuller: I am, but I wanted to place on record my thanks to the Minister for saying that as a result of the debate he will come to Bedford, take a personal interest in the issue and listen to members of the local community. As part of that, will he listen to the members of the local magistracy who have submitted their opposition to the proposed changes?
Mr Vara: If they wish to attend the meeting, they are welcome to do so. The meeting is to be organised by my hon. Friend and by my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, and if they wish to invite them along, I would be more than happy to meet them.
As with magistrates, victims and witnesses attending court should not be financially disadvantaged. They will not incur additional travelling costs, because those are paid by the Crown Prosecution Service.
As the changes take place in Bedfordshire, we will ensure that we continue to provide a good service for victims and witnesses, including vulnerable witnesses. That means that where the situation demands it, applications for special measures may be made in cases involving vulnerable witnesses. When the grounds for such applications are accepted, the court may direct that the witness gives evidence from a location other than where the trial is being heard. For instance, applications may be made for witnesses to give evidence from Bedford magistrates court, or any other courthouse or premises with suitable secure video connectivity, to the trial court in Luton.
I hope that I have been able to reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford that the decision to change the listing arrangements at Bedford magistrates court is not the first step to closing the Shire hall in Bedford and is not a cost-cutting exercise. It is aimed at revising the listing arrangements for criminal and family work to improve efficiency in listing and timeliness, making the best use of court time and other resources and providing speedy justice for victims and witnesses. There is a commitment to ensuring that witnesses and victims have appropriate facilities and security when giving their evidence, including the availability of a video link.
The inconvenience of longer travel times for some will be outweighed by the expected improvements in court productivity, timeliness and the use of technology. We must also acknowledge that for people today, the concept of what is local goes far beyond what was considered local in the past. Local justice is no longer achieved solely by having a court in every town or borough. Indeed, there is no requirement of residence within the local justice area for appointment as a magistrate. Since the creation of the single local justice area, magistrates from across the county have been sitting at both Luton and Bedford without deterioration in the quality of justice, which is delivered through consideration of the evidence presented in open court using sound judgment and social awareness.
I thank my hon. Friend for securing this important debate, and I thank him and my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire for their contributions.
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Shailesh Vara): I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) for securing this debate and my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for so ably supporting him.
One thing is abundantly clear: both of my hon. Friends feel passionately about this issue. There is no doubt that they represent their constituents to the best of their abilities and they have done so admirably today. Their main concern is that there may be a closure of Bedford magistrates court. Let me address that up front: there are currently no plans to close the magistrates court in Bedford. The proposal is about listing arrangements —that is, the allocation of work between the various locations in Bedfordshire. There has been a consultation and were there to be any plans for a closure, it would have said so. The consultation that has taken place is for a different purpose.
Secondly,
“the maintenance of appropriate arrangements for the deployment of the judiciary of England and Wales and the allocation of work within courts”
is the statutory responsibility of the Lord Chief Justice, not the Lord Chancellor. I think that is recognised, but there still seems to be some anger coming in the direction of the Ministry of Justice. Listing is a judicial function and not one over which the Government have control.
Together with and supported by their justices’ clerk, local magistrates ensure that there is sufficient court time available to meet demand and that the right facilities are provided for the particular types of cases that come before them. That includes reviewing the sitting programmes of magistrates courts within their area. The decision may take into account the best use of resources, but it is not one that is based on saving money. The interests of justice are the overriding factor.
Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service is committed to supporting local magistrates in doing that in order to provide an effective and efficient service to court and tribunal users and to focus resources on front-line services and provide access to justice.
In line with other areas, Bedfordshire magistrates regularly review the sitting programme for the courts in the area, to ensure it is properly aligned with the work load. The proposals for Bedfordshire will mean that criminal cases will be concentrated at Luton magistrates courts and that more family work will be heard at Bedford magistrates court. All family work will be retained and there will be increased capacity for it. I take note of the figures mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford, but as far as I can see they refer to criminal work only.
More family work will be heard at Bedford magistrates court because the facilities at Luton are better equipped for criminal cases and Bedfordshire has the capacity to accommodate all tiers of the single family court. It is the view of the magistrates in Bedfordshire that the proposals will make more efficient use of the courtrooms and thereby reduce waiting times for victims, witnesses and other court users.
The proposals have been subject to wide consultation, including with solicitors, the Crown Prosecution Service and other court users. The local magistrates have carefully considered all the responses. The consultation took into account how justice could best be delivered in a suitable environment, while maximising the effectiveness and timeliness of hearings. In addition, the Bedfordshire bench chairman and senior officials met my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire and other local people, some of whom I believe were solicitors, to discuss the matter in more detail before a final decision was made.
Bedford magistrates court is a listed building with limited facilities. It has five courtrooms. It is not readily accessible for either court users or magistrates with limited mobility, other than one courtroom, which is used primarily for family work. Audibility is a problem and the fixed layout of the courtrooms does not lend itself to the use of modern technology. Two courtrooms have video link facilities, including the family courtroom. There is an upstairs secure witness suite that is accessed through the public entrance. There is cell provision, with limited access for custody vans. There is no court administration on site.
To provide the best service to victims and witnesses in Bedfordshire, it is intended that the current witness facilities at Bedford magistrates court will remain and be upgraded to provide a secure video link for vulnerable witnesses who give evidence in criminal cases at Luton or elsewhere.
Luton magistrates court, on the other hand, is a more modern courthouse with six courtrooms. It is accessible for those with limited mobility, both magistrates and court users. The courtrooms are well provided with hearing loops and there is video link capacity in place. It is proposed that that will be extended to provide the capacity in a courtroom with a secure dock. There are ample waiting and interview facilities. There is a secure witness suite with video link facilities. There is ample cell provision. There is also full court administration on site.
The facilities at Luton magistrates court clearly identify it as better suited to criminal work. It will improve the ability of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service and other agencies to meet commitments under the code of practice for victims of crime.
Alistair Burt: I am listening carefully to the argument that is being put forward by my hon. Friend, but I would raise two issues. First, if the courts in Bedford are so manifestly inadequate, why did that not come out in the consultation process in 2010, when the courts were not considered for closure and these issues were not mentioned? Secondly, he referred to magistrates supporting the proposals. Of course, as I indicated, a substantial number of Bedford magistrates did not support them. Does that not weigh on the Minister’s mind? Will he take that further into account and ask those who are responsible for the decisions to do so as well?
Mr Vara: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising those two issues. First, he speaks of inadequate facilities, which implies that there is an underlying question of closure. There has been no reference to inadequate facilities because, as I speak, there are no plans for closure. I was not the Minister in 2010, but I presume that the closure of Bedford magistrates court was not considered at that time, when a large number of closures were considered.
Secondly, my right hon. Friend speaks of a difference of view about what has been said by the magistrates. There is one version and there is his version. I am happy to visit the magistrates court to meet him and my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford. They can bring the people whom they wish to invite and I will bring my officials. I will ensure that there is a proper dialogue, so that if there have been any miscommunications along the line, we can ensure that they are put right. I will facilitate that meeting, and what is more, I will be at it and will visit the court.
I described the facilities at Luton magistrates court, and there will be greater certainty for witnesses about where trials will be heard. As for family work, which will be heard at Bedford magistrates court, it is equally important for that work to be undertaken in suitable court accommodation, separate from criminal work, with co-location of all tiers of the family court judiciary. On the whole, the centralisation of criminal and family work will enable greater capacity to distribute the workload more effectively and ease waiting times in hearing and completing cases. It will provide greater resilience to cope with unexpected changes to workload, or to judicial or agency resources.
I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford and my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire that the decision to change the listing pattern at Bedford magistrates court was not taken in isolation. There were many other considerations, such as the local reduction in workload, particularly for trials, the need for improved performance and better utilisation of criminal justice system agency resources, and the commitment to maximise the use of digital technology.
As a result of the change in the listing pattern in the Bedfordshire area, some magistrates may incur additional travelling costs. However, they should not be financially disadvantaged, as justices’ allowances allow for the reimbursement of travelling costs incurred in the performance of a justice’s duties.
Richard Fuller: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr Vara: I am happy to give way, but my hon. Friend will be mindful of the fact that I have to wind up within the next three and a half minutes.
Richard Fuller: I am, but I wanted to place on record my thanks to the Minister for saying that as a result of the debate he will come to Bedford, take a personal interest in the issue and listen to members of the local community. As part of that, will he listen to the members of the local magistracy who have submitted their opposition to the proposed changes?
Mr Vara: If they wish to attend the meeting, they are welcome to do so. The meeting is to be organised by my hon. Friend and by my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, and if they wish to invite them along, I would be more than happy to meet them.
As with magistrates, victims and witnesses attending court should not be financially disadvantaged. They will not incur additional travelling costs, because those are paid by the Crown Prosecution Service.
As the changes take place in Bedfordshire, we will ensure that we continue to provide a good service for victims and witnesses, including vulnerable witnesses. That means that where the situation demands it, applications for special measures may be made in cases involving vulnerable witnesses. When the grounds for such applications are accepted, the court may direct that the witness gives evidence from a location other than where the trial is being heard. For instance, applications may be made for witnesses to give evidence from Bedford magistrates court, or any other courthouse or premises with suitable secure video connectivity, to the trial court in Luton.
I hope that I have been able to reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford that the decision to change the listing arrangements at Bedford magistrates court is not the first step to closing the Shire hall in Bedford and is not a cost-cutting exercise. It is aimed at revising the listing arrangements for criminal and family work to improve efficiency in listing and timeliness, making the best use of court time and other resources and providing speedy justice for victims and witnesses. There is a commitment to ensuring that witnesses and victims have appropriate facilities and security when giving their evidence, including the availability of a video link.
The inconvenience of longer travel times for some will be outweighed by the expected improvements in court productivity, timeliness and the use of technology. We must also acknowledge that for people today, the concept of what is local goes far beyond what was considered local in the past. Local justice is no longer achieved solely by having a court in every town or borough. Indeed, there is no requirement of residence within the local justice area for appointment as a magistrate. Since the creation of the single local justice area, magistrates from across the county have been sitting at both Luton and Bedford without deterioration in the quality of justice, which is delivered through consideration of the evidence presented in open court using sound judgment and social awareness.
I thank my hon. Friend for securing this important debate, and I thank him and my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire for their contributions.
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